Controlling Eucon-only controllable parameters via MIDI that are not accessible via HUI.
Hey, all! I've been lurking here for a good while but just now diving into making Soundflow macros. Props to Andrew Scheps for making so many good tools and saving me lotsss of time! I should probably just give him my ATM pin because I'll be buying many of his excellent Soundflow tools :-P
For a long time I have been wanting to control some of the Atmos panning parameters via MIDI. In my case in particular, I want to control the Pro Tools Atmos panner's Height control via MIDI CC with a CV foot pedal. I'm pretty sure that the HIU protocol cannot access this parameter in the Atmos panner. Eucon can access it, though, such as using the Avid Control app. I see there are lots of scripts for fixed values triggered by a button or MIDI in SF, but since HUI has limited parameter access, is there a way to control knobs and faders via MIDI in Soundflow like the Atmos Height parameter via Soundflow outside of HUI? Sometimes I want to fly stuff around the room like a flight simulator and have more control over height than the panner's built-in height panning modes/curves. Thank you all for any help and for making such an amazing and dedicated community (and rad app)!
Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2023-05-28 21:42:38.469ZI don't think this is currently possible, unfortunately. Perhaps if the "SurroundPanner" MIDI peripheral protocol supports Atmos height - but never looked into it.
- MMartin Pavey @Martin_Pavey
Hi There,
I would love some development in this area too, it's far too difficult currently to control 3d panning in Pro Tools unless you have an S6
with the joystick options. All the direct protocols for the PT panner are in Eucon and therefore not accessible to us mere mortals.
Height on a footpedal would be awesome. Maybe it could be done by some mapping onto the gui of the panner?
The Surroundpanner midi option did have a height control, but it only worked with the old Dolby panner which nobody uses any more,
since the Atmos panner was integrated into Pro Tools.
Harrison hold the patent for motorised joysticks, so this has caused development to stagnate in that area. Maybe the recent purchase of
Harrison by SSL might open some stuff up a bit, I live in hope.- Mmckay @mckay
Thanks for the support! For everything but Height, the free Avid Control app has a great Eucon stereo/mono XY pad panner for ipad. I use that for all my Atmos panning, so if you haven’t tried it, I recommend it! I guess for now we can use reFuse software’s Mulligan plug-in mapped to the Dolby panner’s height control on tracks that we want foot control over, and coalesce that automation into the Pro Tools panner. I’ll be testing that today.
- MMartin Pavey @Martin_Pavey
Oooh, Mulligan, I hadn't thought of that.
I do use the panner on the ipad app, but the height knob is hopeless.
If you have an Avid Dock you can make the wheel an assignable knob and use that for height.
Still not ideal though. - In reply tomckay⬆:
Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2023-06-02 07:40:09.188ZIs that simulating mouse scroll / mouse drags? You could certainly build something like that in SF.
- Mmckay @mckay
It is just MIDI mapping. One could do that in SF as well to map to the Dolby Atmos Music Panner. It does work, but the workflow with automation and the Dolby Panner is a real drag compared to the built-in Pro Tools panner IMO. I tried to see if I could get the mousewheel mapping to the Height parameter in SF a couple of weeks ago, but perhaps my trackball doesn't want to work that way. It does have a scroll wheel and does scroll the Pro Tools window, but I just couldn't get the darn thing to map the wheel to a knob. I did try another mouse with a scroll wheel but couldn't get that working for mapping either (I'm on a Mac OS 12.6.x). .I'm also new to SF (but not new to mapping and macros in some capacity like BOME Translator). It seems that I would need to have a macro for a MIDI CV pedal sending CC messages that would:
- I guess open the Atmos panner window on the selected track
- maybe mouseclick on the Height parameter (map to UI Element perhaps) or use the mouse to map the scroll wheel to the Height knob?
- hold the mouse down perhaps? Or maybe a mouseclick is not necessary if I can get the scroll wheel to actually map to the height knob
- then use MIDI control to scroll that knob up or down based on a 0-127 CC value that scales to match the 0-100 height values
- some way to disable this control when done
I'll try to give it a go one more time and do some more searching to try to find a scroll wheel macro that works with my trackballs/mice for mapping in SF.
- TIn reply tomckay⬆:Tom Weber @Tom_Weber
You can with the Platane Joystick, not motorized but working. You need 2 of them X and Y axis. The only annoying thing is that you always have to click with the mous on the tiny little "window output button" of the selecetd track. If there is a possibility in soundflow for a script which simulates a mouseclick on this "window outout button" - just an "open" command will not work for Platane. Cheers Tom
https://www.platane.us/index.php/products/daw-controller/js.html- Mmckay @mckay
Thanks for that, Tom! Perhaps you mean one joystick for XY and the other for the Z axis (height)? I wonder if I could hack one of those joysticks and replace the input module with a potentiometer or female TRS jack to use a CV pedal for one axis. I need to research the guts of a joystick and figure out how the voltage is controlled
- In reply toTom_Weber⬆:Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2024-11-08 11:42:19.214Z
Thanks for letting us know! Do you know which protocol this joystick uses to communicate with PT?
- Mmckay @mckay
The site refers to MIDI CC numbers, so I would assume hui and I would assume no height control access, but I’d love to be wrong!
- In reply toTom_Weber⬆:MMartin Pavey @Martin_Pavey
Hi Tom, how are you getting that to work in Pro Tools, is that with the PT panner??
I have a Platane joystick and I couldn't get it to access height only XY and then at quite a rough resolution.
I ended up getting the Axos joystick, which has a much better resolution but is waaaay more expensive.- TTom Weber @Tom_Weber
Hi Martin, you are right if you really need a joystick in the prof. way it is not platane. They promised a new firmware with a smoother resolution. And the height is not possible so far in Protools. I do the height on the tablet in Avid Control. With this commands/scripts here it is easy to open the output window with the working platane joystick. I do not have to search the little tiny spot anymore to open the output window which engages the joystick to. A real one like the AXOS is the better choice if you need fine movement.
- MMartin Pavey @Martin_Pavey
Hi Tom. Awww, I got all exited there for a minute that we could have an affordable 2 joystick Atmos panner.
I'll stick with the Axos for now.
I do the height on an S1 fader which is even easier with the new macros for S1 modes in Eucon 2024.10.
Happy panning!- TTom Weber @Tom_Weber
sounds good!darüber sprechen. Ich bin sicher,
ich kann deutliche Einsparungen bei höchster Qualität anbieten.
- MIn reply tomckay⬆:mckay @mckay
I am working in Pro Tools, so I am wondering what CC number would allow accessing the height fader? Platane’s site says that one can only use one joystick in Pro Tools (no height), but you can use two in Logic, etc.