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Using a Touchscreen - how does it affect the cursor

By David Feldstein @David_Feldstein
    2023-02-19 19:30:31.842Z

    I'm thinking about adding a touchscreen for my Mac / protools rig so I can have a large screen with lots of buttons... If I do, every time I touch a button or slide a fader or anything, will it move my cursor away from where I'm working in the edit window? I imagine this would be incredibly annoying. If so, I do have an old Mac mini that I thought I could run separately with the touchscreen... I'm wondering if I could get that second Mac with the touchscreen to send my SoundFlow data ( button presses, fader moves etc ) to my main protools Mac.. perhaps over wifi...?

    • 14 replies

    There are 14 replies. Estimated reading time: 17 minutes

    1. It depends a bit on the 3rd party touch driver you'd be using. Some of them support returning the mouse to the original position, but I'm not sure how well it works. @Kris_Crunk could potentially share some insight here.

      That being said, is there a specific reason you don't want to use an iPad for this? It would be much easier to set up and allow you a dedicated screen optimized for touch, including supporting multi-touch on multiple faders.

      1. DDavid Feldstein @David_Feldstein
          2023-02-23 15:29:49.340Z

          Hi Christian - thank you for getting back to me. I'm new to soundlfow and really loving it. I have been inspired by touchscreens like Kris_Crunk's. As a composer, I have consistently been pushed to use cubase rather than Protools due to the ability to control it in so many helpful ways.. with functions Protools simply doesn't have. With Soundflow, I am excited to see that I may be able to create macros to do many ( not all ) similar functions in Protools ( which is my DAW of choice since I have been using it forever ). I have 2 Dell touchscreens, and I recently discovered that Viewsonic sell touchscreens with Mac OS drivers. I'd love to have a larger surface than my iPad(s) to create a touch experience with faders, quantize options, articulation switching and on and on. There is very little in the Soundflow store that I have found geared toward composers... it seems to be more for mixers and post people. My hope is that I could create something awesome for composers as well... or perhaps other users who have composer oriented Soundflow decks will put some up on the store. Thanks for an amazing product and if you can point me toward a smart choice for Mac OS drivers for larger touchscreens, or a brand ( like Viewsonic ) that might allow me to dedicate that single screen to touch without affecting the cursor position, I'd be ALL IN on SoundFlow. I'll look forward to your thoughts!!

          1. Thank you! Let me cc @JesperA who has a lot of experience using macOS touch drivers with SoundFlow.

            We (and our developer team) are working on more tools for composers :)

            1. DDavid Feldstein @David_Feldstein
                2023-02-23 16:51:35.441Z

                Thanks so much Christian. I'll look forward to hearing Jesper's thoughts and recommendations. To be more specific, I was looking at the Viewsonic TD1655 as a possible option for a larger touchscreen. They have Mac OS drivers ( though I do not know how they would affect cursor position ). I also own 2 Dell 2418HT's that I use in my studio daily... but I have never used their touch functionality. I chose them because I can adjust their angle very low as to not interfere with my studio monitors... they work great but the touch capability has never been utilized... thanks again!

                1. Those are probably the same Dell touch screens Jesper and I have. This is the company whose drivers Jesper and I used - but Jesper has way more experience with how reliable they are:
                  https://www.touch-base.com/drivers

                  1. DDavid Feldstein @David_Feldstein
                      2023-02-23 17:06:22.730Z

                      Thanks for this. I will download these drivers and try them out over the weekend. Do you find you have issues with the cursor jumping to the spot where your SoundFlow button or fader is? I'm concerned I'll be working in the edit window on my main monitor, then I'll press a button or adjust a fader on my new dedicated soundlfow touchscreen and then I'll have to mouse over from the touchscreen back to the main monitor in the edit window to continue working. I imagine that might make me crazy... but perhaps it doesn't work that way?? Can you somehow set up the touch screen to not affect the cursor position? Your experience with this could save me a ton of frustration... I'm so grateful for your help!!

                      1. I never used this myself set up in that way - but I know Jesper and Kris have done this, so you should wait for their replies. I do know that the TouchBase drivers support something I think they call "anchor mouse" which should put focus back where it was before. But I'm not sure how well it works together with SF.

            2. In reply toDavid_Feldstein:

              Hi David.

              Here's my "progression//experience" with touchscreens for various use.
              It's something I've been in to for 10 years. Might give you some insight.

              ABOUT TOUCHSCREENS:

              • Using a Touchscreen with the UPDD drivers for DAW specific tasks, such as plug control, faders etc works really well. There's a function that allows the cursor to jump back, so the touchscreen can feel like its own unit. You also get multi touch with the UPDD so you can have various gestures which can work super well. I liked this whole setup/concept a lot, and today would still like to control more plugins from a touchscreen more often. But I also found that I didn't use it enough to justify the space on my desk.
              • Using a Touchscreen with the UPDD drivers for SoundFlow surfaces doesn't work that great for me. You'd have to make every action refocus what ever app you work in, as the surface will take focus when you press it. For Nuendo this can be especially annoying as some windows will not show when Nuendo is not in focus. Lastly, on MacOS you will only have single touch on a surface, so if you are thinking about faders, then it's not the greatest. On the Pro side you can use the screen for both surface and DAW windows.

              For touchscreens I've used 22" dell screens. Very cool with the size, but fairly heavy and can be difficult to place. Then I moved to transportable 15,6" monitors. They are much easier to place on your desk.
              I think the big issue with any workstation setup is that you have limited space. As a composer you also need a midi keyboard somewhere. and your computer keyboard. And at some point if you want the touchscreen in front of you, it starts to get far away from you resting position, and it can strain in your arm if you constantly have to reach for it.

              WHERE I'M NOW:
              So in the end I've actually stopped completely using touchscreens through MacOS and instead I have 2 iPads that can change between decks and surfaces etc so I have as much function available in front of me. I've also experimented having them run VVNC software to control plugins. I'll attach a screenshot.
              And maybe important to understand about my journey is that I at some point wanted my studio to be something I can bring on the road so size and ease of setup has become a big factor.

              If you in general just want bigger surface space then an iPad 12.9" allows, then another option is to buy an android box. It will have HDMI, is touch enabled, and you can get them with LAN, so they possibly can connect to your main computer with the fastest possible connection, rather than wifi. Then you can get as big a surface as you can buy a touchscreen. I've done this as well. But it's obviously more tedious than just using an iPad/tablet and I ended wanting a lighter setup. Be aware that if you use an android box or all-in-one, the lack of RAM can affect performance on big SF surfaces. There's also these bigger android touch screens all-in-one, but they tend to have weak specs as there don't seem to be a real marked for them.

              Don't know if all this is any input for you. Please feel free to ask any questions that can further enlighten you etc. Best, Jesper

              (The left screen is one of the transportable 15.6" with touch)
              1. RRob Byers @Rob_Byers
                  2023-02-25 02:21:31.565Z

                  That is a great setup, @JesperA!

                  I thought I’d share that with your recent advice, I installed UPDD and have had good success with it. I have a few dozen macros on a surface on a 15” touch display. Like you mentioned, it helps to add Soundflow’s focus app command to many of them to bring ProTools back in to focus. Combined with UPDD’s “anchor” function, it is working well for all day mix sessions!

                  @David_Feldstein you can find a little more info in this thread: Espresso Touch Display — best approach for touch software stealing mouse pointer?

                  My only complaint so far is that UPDD sometimes needs to be reminded which screen is the touch display using its “Identify” command. However, I have a suspicion that is more an issue with the Espresso Display’s middleware.

                  FWIW, I started out using an iPad. It was slick! But I needed something dedicated, preferably without a battery that would eventually conk out with 40+ hours a week of use. Also, the Soundflow app would frequently disconnect from the connected computer, requiring the app to be restarted. This happened a couple of times a day, and I experienced it on two different networks and two different iPads. And now I have a screen that can be used for other needs when I’m not in a mix session.

                  Welcome to SoundFlow - it’s fantastic, saves time, and has helped me to enjoy my work even more!

                  -Rob

                  1. DDavid Feldstein @David_Feldstein
                      2023-02-27 23:39:07.680Z

                      Thank you to everyone for their insights and experience. If you're interested.. here is my latest update. I downloaded a trial of UPDD and tried it with one of my ( currently in use ) Dell HT touchscreens. It seemed to be working really well.... so I was inspired to go to the next step. The UPDD software is currently $150 which I thought was pretty steep. I did a little research and found that view sonic has several touchscreens now that are Mac compatible. As it turns out "Mac compatible" means that the monitors come with a license for UPDD included. A similarly sized Samsung viewsonic ( TD2430 ) monitor was $329, so I figured... if it came with UPDD included, I should give it a try.... It arrived last night and it did include the software. The beauty of this monitor was that you could lay it flat on a desk. Since I have several vertical monitors, I thought this would be a perfect solution for a screen with a series of SoundFlow buttons, faders etc..... I was wrong. The image quality when it is laying on it's back is very poor. It's not awful but it's pretty bad in my opinion. If I'm gonna be staring at it all day long, I really want it to look sharp. I A/B-ed it to the Dell touchscreen which was not completely flat but it was at it's lowest angle, and there was no comparison the Dell looked so much sharper. So... I'm returning the Samsung and currently debating about whether or not I want to spring for another Dell monitor AND the $150 for the UPDD software.... I may try to live with the iPad scenario for now... I'm a little burnt out on all of the experimenting.... but I may go down that road in the near future... the debate continues. Thank you to all of you for your guidance!!!

                      1. Sigh yea there's a lot of trial and error involved in doing these kinds of things with touch screens. Hopefully you'll end up with a solution you like. Thank you for sharing your process!

                    • In reply toJesperA:
                      ZZoran @Zoran
                        2024-11-03 16:02:48.812Z

                        Hey, I know it's been a while but please if you see this would be great if you could help.
                        Do you need to enable multi touch somewhere inside the UPDD or it is enabled by default?
                        I am struggling only with that one. The rest for me works well. I have a cheap Chinese brand touch screen and my plugins opens on it by default so it is like a control surface for all plugins.
                        Also my focus goes back to Pro Tools the moment I am not touching touch screen. Sometimes only touch screen takes the focus over but only if I "slide" between desktops on the touchscreen. Not a big deal because I just need to touch the touch pad since the mouse is "anchored".
                        So..multi touch? :)

                        1. Can you elaborate what you mean with multitouch?
                          You can have "gestures" such as to finger swipes etc working as "multitouch", but you can't use two fingers to control two different parameters from a plugin.
                          I can't remember what the default settings in UPDD is, but using anchored mouse is nice, and not default I think. If it changes focus on every touch release, it sounds like a UPDD setting, in case you do not want that behavior.
                          If it's hard to explain with text, maybe take a video of you showing the behavior you have, and explain the behavior you would like to achieve :)

                          Best regards, Jesper

                          1. ZZoran @Zoran
                              2024-11-05 05:23:53.135Z

                              Hi Jesper. Thanks for the clarification on the multi touch. I was under impression that there is an option to enable ability to actually control 2 or more parameters at once.
                              Sorry if my previous post wasn't clear, I was just saying that my touch screen works very well with UPDD, in general, except I didn't have "multi touch" which, by it's name, I was expecting to have ability to control more than one parameter at the same time.

                              Thanks Jesper :)