Custom Surface has a substantial proportion of Buttons non functional
Soundflow 5.1
OS 12.3
M1 Max
Quite a bit of weird stuff going on with a Custom surface made for Mastering on PT. Firstly Commands assigned to buttons are non visible. A blank box. I can’t check what commands are assigned to see if the problem arises there. Many of the commands I made myself are giving a variety of error messages in Soundflow. Commands borrowed from the pre version 5 packages also non functioning. I have all 10 inserts assigned to plugins to show/hide and a bypass button for each. The show hide works for some but random for others. No bypass works. Its the standard original script for Insert bypass. Window/plugin reference clicks are completely random. Reference points were from top left but top left on a 1600x1200 monitor now playing on a 1980 HD. Windows/plugins are appearing referenced correct from top LH corners but clicks are wrong. I had a similar problem when I went from 10.13 to 10.14 but only with a few scripts. Other keys are random some work perfectly others don’t at all.
I’m going to redo it as I’ve gone touchscreen but I wouldn’t mind some pointers on scripts that don’t translate from a system update. Obviously screen/window/plugin clicks that are referenced from the RH side won’t work on a different sized monitor.
Other random problems. When I edit a macro or script it jumps to a different one and I have to refind the original. Path in macro not accepting the app name when entered. RX Dialogue edit Stream deck missing all the RX modules in both an edit of the original I made with extra on a StreamDeck XL and the new version 2 as downloaded the other day.
I had some similar randomness when I updated from 10.13 to 10.14 but not as widespread as this. As my main work surface is essentially non functioning I’m a bit stuck. I’ve got a workaround with Sonnox ListenHub but I can’t make a script or macro to open it from the app file path. Most of the screen location stuff I can workaround with the touchscreen monitor.
Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-04-15 09:53:48.952ZHi Terry,
I'm sorry to hear that you're seeing a lot of issues. It's very hard to troubleshoot a ton of issues at once, so please take these step by step.
To get help with scripts or macros that you can't get working, please follow these steps: bit.ly/sfscripthelp
That article also shows you how to send a bug report for anything else, for example for any commands you can't locate the bindings for in your surfaces.If you've recently upgraded to a newer machine, a good first step would be to make sure that your correct profile is selected.
Please note that we don't recommend using mouse coordinate based scripts/actions for anything. SoundFlow almost always has a better way of achieving things. If you're relying on mouse coordinates and switched OS'es it's possible that macOS in the newer version has a different pixel density, which could cause issues.
Almost always you can find more direct ways to control Pro Tools though.- TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
I’ll break them down and file bug reports. The mouse coordinates were a last ditch attempt to get around the lack of api for plugins. The touchscreen monitor has dealt with that. I won’t need to use them as I’ve moved Sound Reference ID out of ProTools and into ListenHub. I listed all the issues in case there was some pattern but I’ll break them down in order of priority.
I did login on the new machine and updated from 5.011 to 5.1 incase that was an issue. Is the auto update still disabled?
I was trying to resolve the issues myself but there’s a bit too many to deal with. I can redo the everyday work surface fairly quickly so that might be the best solution in the long run.
Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-04-15 10:29:56.110ZGot it, yea plugins need mouse coordinates.
I'm reading this as that things used to work and then they stopped - and that the only thing you did was update from macOS 10.14 to 12.3, is that correct?
Please note that we can always revert your entire SoundFlow account to a previous state if you want - we take backups approx. every 24 hours, if you're in doubt if the changes were done by making changes to your account.We'll be able to assist more with proper bug reports so we can look at your setup and log files.
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-04-15 10:31:36.132Z
In terms of this:
RX Dialogue edit Stream deck missing all the RX modules in both an edit of the original I made with extra on a StreamDeck XL and the new version 2 as downloaded the other day.
If you're using the Dialog Editing iZotope package and upgraded to version 2, then this is expected. As the warning dialog said when you updated to the newer version, some references would be lost. This is because version 2 has templates instead of individual scripts. You'll need to reacreate those references.
- TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
That makes sense. Perhaps this is the same reason for the disappearance of commands in my surface? So I understand if you upgrade a package any reference to the original may be lost if used in a users surface/deck?
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-04-16 00:17:47.847Z
References to commands would be lost if those commands got removed in the newer version of the package. Package owners should ideally use semver versioning, meaning a major version bump (ie. from 1.0.0 to 2.0.0) to indicate potential breaking changes.
Most package updates (99% of updates I'd guess) don't usually break functionality, but that particular update did, hence the major version bump.
- In reply tochrscheuer⬆:TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
I went from an i7 MBP to a Mac Studio M1 Max so that was the OS shift from 10.14 to 12.3 so I was wondering whether it was Silicon/Rosetta issues. I noticed when I booted the machine today Soundflow did not automatically start. This is the second time that’s occurred since I updated to 5.1.0
I’ll stay with what I have. It’s easier to rewrite another Mastering controller as my workflow has changed. I’ve added a touchscreen monitor and a Streamdeck XL and I think I’ll probably add 1 or 2 regular Streamdecks underneath the front of the touchscreen. I’m still restricted with not being able to get at a systemwide app from the RHS of the menubar. ListenHub appears there (like SoundReference ID) but won’t respond to a app path command to open. Any suggestions?
- In reply tochrscheuer⬆:TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
Hi Christian,
The problem seems to be Soundflow is not logging in on bootup. I’m getting the orange app and I can only get it to login by restarting Soundflow. I’ve reinstalled 5.1.0 a number of times now but I must restart Soundflow to get it to function normally. I have resolved the other issues by a redesign of my workflow. Mouse clicks are unescessary as most plugins can be operated from a touchscreen.- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-04-21 09:57:28.575Z
Hi Terry,
Thanks for the additional info – what's the orange app you're referring to?
Could I get you to try the following instructions to see if they help?
Soundflow logged in but not working #post-2- TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
Soundflow shows orange instead of grey in the menu bar when it hasn’t logged me in.
The problem with not logging in has been solved. System was set to automatically open previously open apps at last shut down. This doesn’t work with ProTools or RX and seems to be inconsistent with Apple apps (Mail, Safari). PT hangs presumably blocked by some resources and they are probably blocking Soundflow? Safari gives me a Soundflow message (page was open at shutdown) Error Server not available. It would appear that the speed of the M1 Max is allowing apps to open faster than the system and hence resources are not loaded in time.
I’ve the system set to not reopen apps on next startup and all is working as should be. RX opens in about 1 second so no waiting. PT a bit slower as there’s 250+ plugins.
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-04-21 17:49:45.329Z
Thanks for the update, Terry. This is consistent with some internal reports I have seen by a member of our beta team who's on a Mac Studio.
I think SF not opening correctly in this case is related to a PACE bug because PACE doesn't report correctly if the drivers are running or not. In any event, thank you for the very valuable information you shared.
- TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
There’s at least one PACE bug. I’m occasionally getting 2 PACE related error messages. One about ILOK sharing and another unidentified just a PACE Error with a long string title. Neither are session stoppers…yet. I’m not surprised, Allen Cronce seems to think he’s special but has managed to raise the ire of anyone who has relied on ProTools or other audio app or plugin that requires it for the last 25 years.
Mac Studio is very quick. Some of the 3rd party resources take their time loading so It’s best to wait before opening audio apps.
- In reply tochrscheuer⬆:TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
Hi Christian,
I'm still having log in problems at startup with sometimes up to 5 restarts to get it to log in. Soundflow logo shows orange and won't allow a restart from it. Quit SF from here and launch from apps folder will work. I have done the Terminal instructions which solved it for one day but Im back again with it problematic.Sonnox ListenHub and Soundflow don’t want to live together. Normally first startup neither load. SF can be started from the apps folder, ListenHub refuses to start. The only way to get both working is to uninstall SF, run ListenHub and it will give an ILOK fatal error but will run. Then reinstall SF and everything works except when the machine restarts. I’m just leaving the machine on 24 hours and I can work.
I’ve raised the matter with Sonnox but haven’t had a reply yet. Im fairly certain the Systemwide ListenHub Ilok check is coming before Ilok has loaded its permissions and this is blocking/stalling other system resources. I’ve moved the Ilok authorisation from Cloud to key to computer with no improvement. All software is up to date. There’s something up with the Ilok startup routine but I’m baffled to what it is. Any suggestions?
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-09 09:25:57.091Z
Hi Terry,
Yea we know that PACE are doing something wrong here. In essence, SF waits to launch until PACE's startup components have loaded. However, it appears that PACE on Mac Studio either signals that it's loaded too soon, or doesn't signal it at all in some cases, causing the issues you're seeing.
We haven't yet had time to deeply investigate this with PACE.
One workaround would be to disable SoundFlow's automatic launch entirely and launch it manually or manually set up a delayed start of SF, until we can get PACE's help to fix their problem.
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-09 09:27:07.342Z
Tracking this internally in SF-563.
- In reply tochrscheuer⬆:TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
The Mac Studio boots extremely fast and when I was using it initially I had it set to reopen apps that were previously open on shutdown as that was my workflow on the previous mac. It all seemed to work with RX open in 5 seconds when I noticed there were problems with the plugins loading and other inconsistencies. It was only when it tried to reopen PT in a similar manner that it hung every time and that’s where I had the same suspicions you have about PACE loadup. I’ll take SF off automatic and see if ListenHub systemwide will load and then work from there. Sonnox may be the ones to get some response from PACE though PACE seem impervious to their clients problems. I won’t be holding my breath 😀
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-09 12:52:02.423Z
Yea we've worked closely with them in the past to get things fixed, but they're probably pretty busy at the moment.
We have this report tracked internally so I'll update you here when/if there's any response from PACE :)
- In reply tochrscheuer⬆:TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
I’ve disabled the SF load automatically and ListenHub loads fine. It’s first to load and instantaneous. Would appear that SF and PACE are both trying to load first and if SF succeeds then PACE resources are not available. The longer startup should have been the hint and the random correct startup when PACE loaded first. Is there a function to delay SF auto startup? Obviously Streamdeck and all other SF surfaces aren’t functional until SF boots.
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-09 18:49:48.348Z
Is there a function to delay SF auto startup
No not built in, unfortunately. You'd have to set this up yourself via some bash/zsh hacks or something like that. I can't give help on that though.
For now, our focus will be on working with PACE to address the underlying issue.- TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
Fine, just checking in case there was something simple. I’ll continue to work with the manual load until the PACE issues are sorted.
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-09 20:15:53.529Z
I've reported this to them now. The more I look into the issue, the more crazy it is they haven't fixed this yet... Oh well. Will keep you posted.
- TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
PACE is colliding with every startup resource. It’s just a random chance that ListenHub will load. I’ve had to fiddle around again to get it loaded so I’m just leaving the machine on 24/7.
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-10 07:37:37.492Z
I've gotten a reply from PACE with instructions on how we could potentially fix this in a better way, even if it involves a bit more work on our end.
Since it involves more work, it will take longer before we can test it, but the proposed solution seems like the best long term solve for this, so that's great news at least.- TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
Thats a bit of progress but it may fall back inevitably to PACE. PACE is normally a copy protection for DAWs, plugins and VIs, all apps pr resources that require authorisation long after the system os has booted and settled down with its essential resources. ListenHub is the first systemwide app I’ve come across with PACE copy protection and I had the same problem with PT when I set it as a startup app. It hung but Id no feedback to what was causing the hang. It may be Rosetta as neither ListenHub or PT are Universal or M1 yet. Sonnox has been informed so we’ll see how they resolve it.
- In reply tochrscheuer⬆:TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
A bit more progress. ListenHub app was automatically logging in a startup like SF and I’ve disabled this and it starts at desktop level and operates as normal. I reset SF to start automatically and I got a Backend PACE error on startup and SF didn’t load. ListenHub wouldn’t open at desktop level indicating that the ListenHub driver wasn’t loaded. I’ve been in communication with Sonnox support and they suggested disabling the auto login.
Once both apps are on manual startup I have a machine that can be shut down and reliably started so there’s progress. It’s some further feedback for PACE so hopefully a resolution can be found quickly.- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-11 10:06:47.632Z
Hi Terry,
Thanks for the updates. We're working on this internally in collaboration with PACE. I appreciate the details but at this point we can reproduce the behavior internally so you don't need to add further right now.
I'll be in touch when we have an update.- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-11 13:20:16.175Z
Initial tests show that we have this mostly working internally now :)
It's not a promise yet, we'll have to do more testing, but initial results are good.- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-17 09:24:15.420Z
Hi Terry,
We're seeing good results with our fixes in 5.1.5. It's almost ready to come out of beta, here's a sneak peek installer if you'd like to try it before it becomes publicly available:
https://downloads.soundflowcdn.com/5.1/5.1.5/f3ecc6601dd215aa/SoundFlow_5.1.5.pkg
- TTerry Cromer @Terry_Cromer
This seems to fix the problem of SF auto start. No conflicts provided ListenHub remains a manual start. If ListenHub set to auto login as well as SF then back to scratch with a non function ListenHub.
- Christian Scheuer @chrscheuer2022-05-17 22:09:00.609Z
Got it, thanks. Yea they will likely need to implement the same fix that PACE asked us to implement.
- SIn reply toTerry_Cromer⬆:SoundFlow Bot @soundflowbot
This issue has been marked as Done